scottkimberly (100 posts)  11/29/2012 5:16 PM

Hadn't found a thread wholly devoted to Sanders, so I'd like to start one.  I recently picked up Sanders, but his minutes have been a mess.  He has only averaged 13mpg over the past two games, and the frontcourt in Milwaukee has featured so many complicated minutes situations (Ersan playing 30-then-20-then-15-then-30, Dalembert starting-then-benched-then-starting-again, small lineups that basically eliminate minutes for bigs, etc.)

What is happening with frontcourt minutes in Milwaukee.  If Sanders can ever get 25+mpg he is going to be great, but can/will that happen this year?

mbuser (4326 posts)  11/29/2012 9:34 PM

Skiles has been all over the place. Henson has a good game, then barely plays, then suddenly is the starting PF but only plays 12 minutes. The problem here is that we can have no real expectation of minutes, even in a ballpark sense. And Ilyasova should be great with 25+ mpg, as well, and he's technically the guy they payed to play, right?

Pockett14 (15 posts)  11/29/2012 9:47 PM

I hear your pain! I own Sanders and Ersan and its been a nightmare.  I was thinking of dropping Sanders but then I read a lineup change was coming Friday.  Who knows what Skiles will do next but I think I have to move on.

scottkimberly (100 posts)  11/29/2012 10:23 PM

Blurb on this site noted that Sanders started the second half last game.  Start him the whole game!

twilo28 (212 posts)  11/30/2012 1:34 PM

He'll foul out before he can play 25 mins.

rico381 (279 posts)  11/30/2012 9:19 PM

10 blocks tonight... don't know if it'll change Skiles' rotation going forward, though.  Is he worth picking up again?

itsab_YFantasy (58 posts)  11/30/2012 9:37 PM

That milwaukee coach is a pain in the a** for us fantasy players... I wanted to get Sanders from the waiver wire but Im not sure if hell even play in the next one.

bolt (85 posts)  11/30/2012 9:53 PM

Last five games: 6 mins, 29, 12, 13, 32.  With my settings (8-cat) he just went from a -1.6 value game to a +2.2 game - it's a crapshoot.

Or maybe I'm just trying to make myself feel better about cutting someone just before they get a triple-double..

mbuser (4326 posts)  11/30/2012 11:26 PM

Can he really play Henson ahead of him now?

tonika_zr (991 posts)  11/30/2012 11:38 PM

Dumb mfs like Smart's,Skiles'es and few more always CAN do brainless things... If not for other reasons just bc to have things done it in that wrong way even if they know is wrong one.

scottkimberly (100 posts)  11/30/2012 11:55 PM

I am in a H2H league where I swapped Waiters straight up for Sanders last week.  It's a points league, so bigs are more valuable.  Made the trade as a pure upside gamble.  I felt like a jackass for the past week, but nights like tonight give me hope...

Also, Cleveland plays 9gm in the playoff period and Milwaukee plays 11gm.  So that's another reason I made the move.

scottkimberly (100 posts)  11/30/2012 11:56 PM

If he can just get 25min a night his value will eclipse Waiters in this league. Easily.

Come on, Skiles...

scottkimberly (100 posts)  12/1/2012 12:02 AM

The minutes from tonight's box score: Sanders 32 minutes, Udoh 29, Dalembert 16, Henson 19.  I have to believe that, if Henson loses minutes, this could be a typical line?  Dalembert starting then riding pine, with the frontcourt primarily featuring Sanders and Udoh.  Am I being too optimistic?

tonika_zr (991 posts)  12/1/2012 12:07 AM

Yes, you are, just wait and see next 2-3 games with genius brain of  NO-SKILEs managing the lineups/minutes.

scottkimberly (100 posts)  12/1/2012 12:09 AM

32min a night is definitely unrealistic, considering the Skiles craziness, but is it unreasonable to think that Sanders can average 24-26 minutes per game?

Hailfire4 (510 posts)  12/1/2012 12:14 AM

Don't forget Ersan sure to reappear sometime. Sanders seems to be mostly limited by his fouls. I am still burning the 1 waiver on Sanders though dropping Chaunky.

tonika_zr (991 posts)  12/1/2012 12:14 AM

Just wait and see when one day he decide to bring back Gooden in a mix, that would be hilarious

mbuser (4326 posts)  12/1/2012 9:36 PM

More hugeness tonight...

kenjlev18 (4 posts)  12/1/2012 10:07 PM

I dropped Sanders for Patrick Patterson earlier this week, and then today, I bit the bullet and picked Sanders back up, and dropped Ersan. I've tried to be patient with Ersan, but I wanted Sanders back, and Ersan by far is the low man on the totem pole in terms of performance. 

bolt (85 posts)  12/1/2012 10:23 PM

Ahh crap, I'm going to regret dropping this guy.  Was still on waivers so couldn't pick him back up.

jjp2122 (44 posts)  12/1/2012 11:33 PM

Seems it will be really hard for Skiles to mess with his minutes at least for a bit after these two games.

Then again, it's really hard to trust anything Skiles does with lineups. And I don't necessarily see Dalembert and Harris continuing to rack up DNPs.

Worth burning a #4 waiver (yes, still holding on to it...) and dropping Amare, or does the uncertainty (and the really poor FT%, which doesn't seem to getitng much attention in all the hype - in my case seems like rostering both Asik and him on a non-punt FT% team might be a mistake) make it not worth it? 

scottkimberly (100 posts)  12/2/2012 12:51 AM

I'm all in right now.  Another blurb tonight said Skiles wanted to start him but Sanders wanted to come off the bench.  That tells me Skiles wants to get this kid in the game, and he had a legit line put up after only 16 minutes played tonight. As I said above, if he can get 25mpg, big things are coming.

As for your team, I would say that he is only worth the #4 waiver spot if you accept the risk that comes with it.  If you want a slam dunk with your #4, wait. If you're looking for upside, this is your ticket.

Also, in response to "rostering both Asik and [Sanders] on a non-punt FT% team might be a mistake," that's not a mistake, it's an impossibility. Once you've added Sanders and Asik to a team, it's no longer a "non-punt FT% team." Sorry to the bearer of bad news.

bolt (85 posts)  12/3/2012 9:29 PM

Another 7 blocks...I can barely look at Bucks box scores any more.

I don't think his ft% is a huge killer due to low volume.

AZ18 (105 posts)  12/3/2012 9:45 PM

really hurts Billups stinking it up, used my last pickup last week on him then wanted to pickup Sanders. FAIL! 

scottkimberly (100 posts)  12/3/2012 11:29 PM

Minutes over the last three games: 32-33-26.  I'm beginning to think that 25mpg might be attainable.  

It doesn't help that Sanders doesn't want to start, but instead wants to come off the bench. However, even coming off the bench, I think 25/gm is possible.

With 25/gm, Sanders can put up 8pts/8reb/3-4blk. Good enough for me.

ZeroStatic (164 posts)  12/3/2012 11:50 PM

Don't get silly, the block numbers have been great, but he's not putting up 3-4 blocks per game in 25 minutes. That's a struggle for Hakeem in his prime...

scottkimberly (100 posts)  12/3/2012 11:59 PM

You're right. But 8/8/2 is doable, with the occasional 4 or 5 block night.

vnmslsrbms (65 posts)  12/4/2012 1:22 AM

I didn't know Skiles cared about what players think whether they should play more or less?  maybe that's been his problem all along, trying to please each player by playing everyone a little and ending up nobody being happy.  I really think this team could be a lot better with some continuity outside of Jennings and Ellis.  Skiles' style is terrible for the player's pschy's.  And ours.

Cap. (518 posts)  12/4/2012 10:29 AM

Sanders' per-36 over the last 3 games:  14.3 PTS, 13.9 REB, 1.2 AST, 1.5 STL, 8.7 BLK on .577% FG and .857% FT shooting.  If that's not reason enough to let this guy loose I don't know what is.

rtracy12 (22 posts)  12/4/2012 11:38 AM

Larry Sander's been watching Ibaka videos on youtube

rtracy12 (22 posts)  12/4/2012 11:39 AM

A guy in my leage has both Ibaka and Sanders.  Needless to say I lost by about 20 blocks last week

mbuser (4326 posts)  12/5/2012 12:17 PM

Bucks PR ‏@BucksPR
Larry Sanders will be starting tonight for the @Bucks. MILvSAS

I wonder what swung him, given that he declined the starting gig a few games ago. Perhaps we see a tight three-man rotation of Udoh-Sanders-Ilyasova? That would be nice.

philzilla (46 posts)  12/5/2012 12:35 PM

Yesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss.

emge (15 posts)  12/5/2012 1:03 PM

how many minutes do u project Sanders if he's starting?  

mbuser (4326 posts)  12/5/2012 1:06 PM

Somewhere between 14 and 36

Let's see what happens tonight. But in any case, add Sanders anywhere you can.

scottkimberly (100 posts)  12/5/2012 1:27 PM

I think "somewhere between 14 and 36" is about as close as we are going to get with the Mike-Shanahan-of-basketball at the helm.

Hailfire4 (510 posts)  12/5/2012 2:16 PM

Sanders minutes have another enemy besides the coach, fouls. Getting ejected getting 5 fouls a game can all happen in 20 minutes. If he would just lay off some of the thuggery he would be much more reliable. Still I am finding in a keeper league, Sanders nets some pretty good offers.

tonika_zr (991 posts)  12/5/2012 2:34 PM

Bc he is on highest place value right now, best offers/packages are made then...

mbuser (4326 posts)  12/5/2012 2:39 PM

Good call, hail. I completely glossed over that. Check his foul rates, along with the other stats [BkRef]:

scottkimberly (100 posts)  12/5/2012 7:53 PM

Larry Sanders started! YEAH!  

Larry Sanders picked up two fouls in five minutes! Aww...

chongli73 (33 posts)  12/5/2012 7:54 PM

And Sanders picks up his 2nd foul less than 5 minutes per game in his first start.  Let's hope he doesn't compete with Cousins for highest foul rate and stay on the floor longer.

mt4917 (20 posts)  12/6/2012 3:23 PM

Is it true that all the games where he's been successful in the past couple weeks he's come off the bench?  Maybe if he's not going up against starting bigs for the first few minutes he's in, he won't get two fouls before he gets his legs under him.

mbuser (4326 posts)  12/6/2012 4:34 PM

Yesterday was his first start of the season, so anything he did good or bad was as a reserve. I wouldn't worry much about him fouling starters more than reserves, just worry about him fouling, period.

mt4917 (20 posts)  12/7/2012 9:53 PM

So far, so good-ish:  3 fouls tonight in 25 minutes, really nice Ibaka-lite line of 8-10-1-1-5-0.  Reserves played most of the 4th - his minute count would've been higher tonight in a close game.

richardpwnsner (53 posts)  12/8/2012 7:56 AM

IMO this guy's primary value is in H2H leagues, where he can be stashed and brought out to eek out a win in blocks where necessary. A relative luxury, but a useful one for sure. I'm starting to get really curious as to what he can do in the starting lineup after last night. This would allow you to be relatively ambivalent towards blocks and focus on the other 7-8 cats. If you play him 2 games a week for the rest of the year, you should get at least one (relatively) monstrous night with minimal collateral damage to FT, and you have to assume he can get a couple assists too with that perimeter.

Edit: By relatively monstrous, I mean ~4, not 10 :)

Editx2: Has anyone seen him play live? I bet he looks like an autistic cobra, in a good way.

discocricket (11 posts)  12/8/2012 11:49 AM

I watched him pretty closely last night. If he can cut down on the fouls, it seems that his strong play over the last week has earned him 25mpg from Skiles. He played for long stretches of the 1st and 3rd quarters. He has a couple of slightly troubling tendencies that could annoy Skiles: he takes 1+ jumper per game that could get him benched (he should not shoot 18 footers EVER) and you occasionally see him get the ball above the FT line and try to dribble into traffic. If he just stays within a few feet of the basket on each end and works on his rolls he should remain the starting C and be effective in that role.

They do have a bunch of semi interchangeable guys up front (Dalembert, Henson, Udoh, Sanders) so its not just a Skiles issue, its a team construction issue. 

twilo28 (212 posts)  12/9/2012 5:54 AM

@richard - you're way off in your assumption that Sanders is a "H2H" player. Of course he can be a useful player in roto, what the hell are you talking about? He helped one of my teams jump 6pts in a day.

richardpwnsner (53 posts)  12/9/2012 1:15 PM

I hereby revoke my prior categorization of Sanders as a definitive H2H player with absolutely no value in roto leagues. Truly, I have made a mockery of the pwnsner family name. I can only hope that this bitter crow sandwich will deter me from such absolutist statements of fact in the future, and remind me to carefully qualify my opinions as such.

ajcollector9290 (28 posts)  12/10/2012 1:09 AM

huge mins for him tonight. very, very good sign for his owners

richardpwnsner (53 posts)  12/10/2012 11:01 AM

Who is that hypnotically clapping old fellow? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_orCijfCO-c

kslight (999 posts)  12/10/2012 11:26 AM

Certainly looks like Orson Welles.

philzilla (46 posts)  12/10/2012 1:39 PM

I watched him closely yesterday. He missed a few easy shots, but I can see why Skiles is riding him for big minutes instead of Dalembert, Henson, or Ersan. He and the other Milwookie bigs blocked or altered so many shots early on that Brooklyn was forced to alter their entire game plan, and by the time they did, it was too late. Sanders is still raw, but young enough that he could still be molded into a great starting center. I like his ceiling long term.

mister_eff (1 posts)  12/10/2012 3:00 PM

Citizen Kane, yo.

mtneer99 (3 posts)  12/11/2012 10:29 AM

Sanders last 6 games avg 5.3 Blocks

mtneer99 (3 posts)  12/11/2012 11:31 AM

I have a problem I guess being a fan of both Ersan & Larry

The Larry Sanders show I thought was cancelled and now its back on my TV again

mtofell (18 posts)  12/16/2012 10:55 AM

I can't find any info that mentions this from last night's game.... why did Sanders only play 16mins?  Did he get injured or did he somehow land on grumpy Skiles' "list" ?

mbuser (4326 posts)  12/16/2012 11:31 AM

Blowout loss and I'm assuming Skiles didn't like the substantial size advantage that DeAndre Jordan had on him, which would explain Gooden/Przybilla getting ~20 minutes of run. I can't say that I'm a huge fan of the small lineup with LRMaM at PF, I'd rather see Sanders and Udoh out there together.

richardpwnsner (53 posts)  12/16/2012 12:05 PM

Mother of god I want league pass.