fredfunk (32 posts)  10/14/2012 2:37 AM

How do you fellas think Gortat will suffice?  As expected, nba.com's advanced stats show stark declines in his production with Nash on the bench:  http://www.nba.com/advancedstats/player-vs-player.html#Marcin-Gortat-vs-Steve-Nash|101162,959;year=201112;season=r

With Nash    /     Nashless

Points:  18.3 /  11.9

FG%:   57% /  47%

FGA:  13.5 /  10.8

Reb:  11.5 /  9.8

Needless to say..........me no likey.  Gortat helped me win my league last year and I want him to continue hammering undersized centers.  Can Dragic come close to helping him replicate last year? 

bruin99 (201 posts)  10/14/2012 12:18 PM

Can't remember, who was Nash's backup last year?  And is Dragic better than Nash's backup?  If so, then there always is concern when a great distributor like Nash leaves a team, and I would expect some decline from the with Nash number, but definitely not as bad as the Nashless numbers.

I am however worried that they acquired some high usage players (Beasley & Scola) and got rid of some low usage players (Lopez & Hill).

mbuser (4328 posts)  11/19/2012 3:00 PM

Interesting quotes from Gortat:

Unfortunately... I've been doing the dirty work all my life, and now I have to come back to that. I will fight for what's mine. I'll try to prove to the coach that I can play an important role in the offence. Unfortunately, I don't think I'm even an option for Gentry. He doesn't even take me into consideration. The situation is critical. We're playing the same thing we've been playing last year, but the truth is we have a completely different set of players. I don't think it really works. I can't get frustrated now though, I have to stay positive.

We have plenty of players who like to create for themselves, but it doesn't always work. We don't share the ball as much as we have in previous seasons. The ball doesn't move around the perimeter – it usually stops after one or two passes. You can't play like this, let alone win. Basketball is a team sport. Nobody ever won a game alone.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/21058191/marcin-gortat-apparently-isnt-an-option-in-phoenix

Sounds like he's not thrilled with things so far. His FGA and FTA are most certainly down. [BkRef]

According to Synergy Sports, he's been the roll man in P&R for 22% of his FGA, completing only 39%, and I know those are both way down (although I can't locate last season's numbers). Those BLK numbers normalize a bit and that season rank is going to start to come down...

rtracy12 (22 posts)  11/28/2012 12:31 PM

After a really hot start to the season, Gortat's crashed down to Earth. What happened? He's killing me lately.  Jermaine O'Neal is getting better stat lines.. come on.

Cap. (519 posts)  11/28/2012 1:09 PM

Kinda pissed I didn't sell high when I had the chance, but the way he was going it didn't seem like I'd be able to replace his production.  I think the Suns are going through a transition phase right now which might explain his inconsistency a bit, but we do know that he's one of the only ones in their rotation that is bench-proof, so I wouldn't worry about him too much.

mbuser (4328 posts)  11/28/2012 2:32 PM

I like Cap's take. They are in flux but he's not going to lose his gig to Jermaine O'Neal, so while you should be mad that you didn't trade him six games in, there's a good chance that he eventually settles in to a reasonable level of production. Of course, if those PHO trainers truly are miracle workers, then a healthy/motivated JO could be pushing him all season.

First 6 games: 35 mpg, 10.8 FGA, 60% FG, 11.2 reb, 4.3 blk
Past 9 games: 29 mpg, 8.4 FGA, 42% FG, 7 reb, 1.2 blk
Past 4 games: 26 mpg, 9.8 FGA, 53% FG, 6.4 reb, 0.6 blk

DMWave (171 posts)  11/29/2012 9:17 AM

There are a lot of factors at play here but what is confusing me is his recent mpg. Even if they don't go through him in the offense as much why is he riding the pine a lot suddenly? 

Cap. (519 posts)  11/29/2012 11:08 AM

Suns are a mess right now, they need a coaching change stat.

mbuser (4328 posts)  11/29/2012 2:07 PM

Look at O'Neal's on/off court numbers right now, though: http://www.82games.com/1213/12PHO13.HTM#onoff

Cap. (519 posts)  11/29/2012 2:25 PM

I know the Suns are only 7-8 and they don't need to panic yet, but I don't think their record accurately projects just how bad they've been so far.  Sure, J-O has been fine so far, but I don't care if he's putting up all-star #s, he's not the key to this team winning, and certainly not their long term future.  If Gentry doesn't know how to get the most out of Beasley, Scola, Dudley, Gortat, and Dragic, then they need to bring in someone who does because that is their core now (not to mention they've got 30+ million tied up in those guys), and when they're all playing up to their potential, they could actually be a good team.  So far, they just look disoriented and unmotivated.

rakmjn1 (8 posts)  11/29/2012 2:53 PM

Is he trying to force a trade?

he refused to sign extension with the Suns and Boston inquired about his availability

fromak (23 posts)  11/29/2012 4:22 PM

Oh man he would be great offense in Boston...

mbuser (4328 posts)  11/29/2012 9:00 PM

Why not hit the open market, where competent bigs always do well? Why limit your options if you don't have to? If things go south, maybe the Suns do look to trade him.

tonika_zr (991 posts)  11/30/2012 12:45 AM

Do not seeing him staying in PHX.

ferris (307 posts)  12/8/2012 6:45 PM

What are people doing with Gortat?

Holding, Selling, Selling cheap, buying, buying cheap -- for how many cents on the dollar?

tonika_zr (991 posts)  12/8/2012 11:42 PM

LOL ferris

redhopeful (89 posts)  12/8/2012 11:46 PM

Don't own him anywhere and don't feel it's worth the effort in trying to buy. 

twilo28 (212 posts)  12/9/2012 5:34 AM

Just acquired him in exchange for Boozer.

ak murthy (196 posts)  12/9/2012 5:56 PM

I like the deal twilo, but man things are looking bad in PHX. He's just not a part of that offense anymore, it's really bizarre. A trade would be amazing.

mgustafson (24 posts)  12/17/2012 4:22 PM

Anyone see optimism for him picking his game up? He just hit the waivers in our league and I'm not sure if I want to bother putting in a bid on him considering his last few weeks of play.

So-Tex (246 posts)  12/17/2012 4:44 PM

As a Gortat owner, it's been a very frustrating turn of events this last month or so, needless to say.

I'd make a move for him off the wire for your worst slot, but not from waivers, especially if you have to put a bid in. I like that he's seemed to come back to life a bit these last few games. But in my opinion, the writings on the wall in PHX. It's been said here before, if he doesn't get traded this year, he hits the FA market and moves elsewhere.

In the meantime, he might get you a few lines like he has the last three games. But I'd be shocked, and pleasantly surprised, if he re-wound his play back to the beginning of the season.

I'd be like finding out    really exist. 

rtracy12 (22 posts)  12/17/2012 4:45 PM

Gortat will bounce back eventually.  I expect he gets traded and shines elsewhere.

ferris (307 posts)  12/18/2012 1:47 AM

6 blocks tonight

DMWave (171 posts)  12/18/2012 6:22 AM

I own Gortat in two leagues, and yes he has been fairly weak the last month. With that said though he's an auto add in 12 team and I'd still say someone you want to own in 10 team. He's been solid the last four games so there are signs of life left. What are your worst players like currently?

Cap. (519 posts)  3/6/2013 8:51 PM

Took what looked like a harmless fall tonight, but spent a long time on the ground and hobbled off, could be a serious knee injury. Markieff Morris looks like a pretty good grab right now.

odin426 (393 posts)  3/6/2013 8:56 PM

Markieff or Marcus? Can any of them play PF/C?

Cap. (519 posts)  3/6/2013 9:02 PM

I think they both play PF. Haddidi subbed in for him, but quickly subbed out and oh yeah he sucks, so nevermind him. Scola can slide over to C and I expect Markieff to start at PF moving forward.

mbuser (4328 posts)  3/6/2013 9:02 PM

Any long-term injury would likely mean Jermaine/Scola get the C minutes and Markieff/Marcus get the PF minutes. Not sure if Hunter would try to flex his "player development" muscles with Haddadi or not.

odin426 (393 posts)  3/6/2013 9:09 PM

Im guessing Scola will get the biggest bump playing PF and back up C behind J.O? and J.O. getting as much as he can handle without falling apart? How do you think the minutes will be spread if he's out long term?

odin426 (393 posts)  3/6/2013 9:10 PM

Or will this push them to player dev mode?

mbuser (4328 posts)  3/6/2013 9:16 PM

I would think the minutes would be spread fairly even between the four players. Letting your young PFs get trampled by opposing centers doesn't qualify as developing them.

odin426 (393 posts)  3/6/2013 9:22 PM

So thats about 24 mins each on the PF/C minutes, fluctuating on whos hot? Doesnt sound like anyones a good pick up... Maybe the Morrises on upside if ever, would you drop Burks for Markieff? Starting to think though that Utah is going to give Burks run, even with Mo-Will around

odin426 (393 posts)  3/6/2013 9:39 PM

Marcin Gortat's X-rays were negative on right foot, MRI planned for tomorrow.

via rotoinfo

So looking up a bit for Gortat owners but not quite out of the woods yet....

Cap. (519 posts)  3/7/2013 12:08 AM

I wouldn't look up too much, he said himself he heard a dreaded "pop", and could be out for weeks. I saw it live, it didn't look like much but sometimes those internal injuries can be even worse. No need to make any rash moves yet, but Gortat's season is likely over. Tough break for the Suns who could have gotten value for him in February, and are now sentenced to mediocrity for the next 10 years. Their only hope is to completely blow it up and tank next season to get a shot at Andrew Wiggins, and I would go as far as saying that any other strategy would be highly detrimental to the franchise.

odin426 (393 posts)  3/7/2013 12:23 AM

Yeah that sounds BAD!!!

rico381 (279 posts)  3/7/2013 1:04 AM

Lol Cap.  They might lose an average starting center for the meaningless last month and a half of the regular season.  You tell us not to be rash, and then literally the very next sentence, you're condemning them to a decade of mediocrity?  

So-Tex (246 posts)  3/7/2013 2:12 AM

It's ok rico...being a Raptors fan, Cap's got plenty of experience calling out "mediocrity"... 

Just yanking your chain, Cap! 

Cap. (519 posts)  3/7/2013 8:40 AM

"Ridicule is the tribute paid to the genius by the mediocrities."  - Oscar Wilde 

I was saying in fantasy terms not to do anything rash yet until we get an update.  In real life however, this is a huge blow to the Suns' long term success.  Sure, it might seem like a meaningless injury in garbage time of a lost season, but look at it this way, if the Suns wanted to explore trading Gortat this offseason, which I think is generally assumed, then his trade value just went out the window.  It's one thing if he gets injured mid-season and comes back to prove he's healthy, but a season-ending injury like this makes it very hard for other teams to gauge, and let's be honest, Gortat wasn't having a very good season in the first place, so whereas the Suns were actually in the conversation to make a play for Josh Smith for example in February, there isn't any combination of players Atlanta would take now in June.  If you ask me, the Suns are as big a mess right now as any team in the league, but as much of a lack of talent as they have, they're currently just the 7th worst team in the league, so it doesn't seem like they'll even get a high lottery pick this year unless they lose the next 20 games in a row.  So as grim as it sounds, there really isn't one player on their whole roster I would feel confident saying is a legit core piece.  You can look at the Bobcats, or Wizards, or Kings, and have hope for the future, but you can't honestly tell me you envision the Suns making the playoffs in the 2010s, can you?  Like I said, what they should do this offseason is trade Scola and Dudley, then trade Dragic and Gortat next year mid-season.  It's their only hope of being bad enough, and gathering as many future assets as they can, to look forward to 2018/19. 

Hailfire4 (510 posts)  3/7/2013 9:38 AM

Who knows exactly what type of talent the Suns have? Kendall Marshall might be a revelation in waiting. But we don't know cause cause he has rarely played. The Suns have Dragic then 4 starters that get 24 minutes a game and backups getting 24 minutes a game. They have no obvious core players cause their fired and now interim coach both chose to underutilize everybody. Beasely is the exception. The man was given almost unearned huge minutes by 2 different coaches before failing yet again, again. I would love to see the Suns either try to win or develop but what they are doing is abysmal. I do think they have talented players that are just being misused. Even if the kids they got now can't play a lick, nobody would ever know. The Suns need a direction. Outside of Beasely they have no bad contracts so they should be able right the ship fairly quick. Look at the Marcus Morris trade. A very shrewd deal for yet another young player they keep on the bench.

Cap. (519 posts)  3/7/2013 12:47 PM

I don't think it's the coach's fault actually, and you can't really blame the players for sucking, so it falls on the GM for putting this rag-tag bunch together.  Ok, so Gortat looked like a good pick up at the time, and some of you were higher on Dragic than I was, but putting them next to Dudley, Frye, Scola, and Beasley was hardly a stroke of genius, even if Frye and Dudley looked ok last year.  It's a pretty tough pill for Suns fans to swallow to accept the fact that none of those players are worth keeping now, but the sooner they realize that, the sooner they can start to rebuild, and if they don't start soon, they'll keep piling on average prospects and get nowhere.

mbuser (4328 posts)  3/7/2013 2:13 PM

Paul Coro ‏@paulcoro
A dejected Marcin Gortat will have sprained foot in a cast for 3 weeks and doubts that he will play again for the #Suns this season.

PHO minutes are updated.

Sribb43 (66 posts)  3/7/2013 2:25 PM

JO is a must add when he returns...

brandonislegend (115 posts)  3/7/2013 2:44 PM

Either Morris worth owning from this? 

mbuser (4328 posts)  3/7/2013 2:53 PM

http://basketballmonster.com/Projections.aspx

So-Tex (246 posts)  3/7/2013 3:24 PM

Ahhhhhhh, hell!!!    ANOTHER player I own goes down in    for the season!

I really need to learn to shut up...before I jinx half the Western Conference!